Advice I'd Give to Anyone Starting Their Amazon Career | Straight Up Visionary Ep. 1
By Adrianna Lugo |
Published on Nov 21, 2022
| 3 min read
After beginning his early Amazon career at the leading digital marketing and eCommerce agencies, Daniel Tejada co-founded Straight Up Growth in 2020. Straight Up Growth (SUG) is a leading Amazon Advertising Agency selling $350M+/year for their clients
The Straight Up Visionary Podcast dives deep into the career and story of leading Amazon and eCommerce advertisers, as well as entrepreneurs and Amazon Sellers.
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Matthew Mangione has been swimming in the waters of Amazon Advertising for close to a decade, long enough to remember when clicks truly came a dime a dozen and the Amazon ocean was a vast blue expanse, not shark filled waters teeming with chum. He finds significance in showing up and being present, exploding the paradigm of “work / life balance,” enjoying Betta fish and Amazon Beta tests, and writing about himself in the third person.
Daniel + Matthew recall the early days in their career, learning Amazon Advertising through trial and error.
Some of Matthew and Daniel's key learnings:
• Embracing failure is the key to rapidly increasing your growth.
"If you're not failing enough, you're not trying hard enough"
• Accountability and a continued trust is key between an agency and brand relationship
• How remote work can empower you to travel and work anywhere in the world
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he's a growth strategy of operations uh I also like to think of him as my counterpart on the machine learning side0:12
of things when it comes to Amazon Matthew thanks for for coming on board here today yeah I like to consider0:18
myself uh the soda to Daniel scotch and if so I love it uh but yeah we're0:27
really excited to have uh Matthew on board today Matthew why don't you just give us a quick kind of rundown on sort0:32
of what you do right now um and then we'll kind of jump into some fun stuff from there sure uh in a past0:38
life I was a teacher in South Korea uh and it made to jump over to Amazon0:43
started my own brand uh back in the day moved back to the States0:48
and was continuing with my own brand but got hired on by a friend who had started a brand0:54
and really fell into that a lot more my general Brandon started off it's just thinking I really wasn't Instagram with1:01
my own stuff as I was with other people's for whatever reason so I really dove in and helped build up a brand1:07
called Copper compression and it was started by a friend really bootstrapped uh when I came on I was the first uh1:14
full-time employee outside of the two owners we have a wonderful virtual assistant in the Philippines uh We Grew1:21
From there uh and it was fantastic and been existing in the space since about 2016 with copper compression for that1:28
whole time I started my own brand about 2015. uh and have evolved into a role1:34
from wearing a lot of hats back in the day you could see these hands photoshopped with some of the old1:41
products on and my wife was included on some of the product listings so the whole Gambit avoiding a ton of hats uh1:48
to a point where we got acquired by uh a company based out of Manhattan uh in1:53
July 2019 and then I started focusing a lot more really what my strengths were and what my areas of uh of learned2:01
expertise was that was a great thing about Amazon I didn't know anything coming in and then back through the old2:06
the jungle Scout days and learning and watching the YouTube videos and getting in there and trial by air I don't know2:12
any other way to really go about it there's no knowledge base that can supplant actually going in and doing it2:17
yourself and being awake at four in the morning because you screwed something up and you got to fix it up so go going2:22
through all those processes again through to a place now where I really focus on one one of my main driving2:28
factors is talking to Amazon and saying give me in any data you can I want to be involved in any beta so it's evolved2:35
into a lot more for the growth strategies and operations too how do we not only refine what we're doing but how2:40
do we get into these new feel which way the wind is blowing from the uh from the Amazon gods and set our2:47
sales in that Direction that's awesome and there's just there's so much to unpack like2:53
through all the things you said here I want to start with with uh the first piece you mentioned you were employee number one right at that uh when you2:59
first started uh there I also came from a background where uh I worked at one of3:05
the earliest uh authorized Amazon sellers called quiver and I was employed number seven there and the the wearing a3:11
lot of hats I I think there's um there's a lot of advantages to it but it's not always the easiest thing to do3:18
so I'm curious like how'd you feel about that experience do you think that ultimately you know was fruitful for you in the long run or do you think it took3:24
away from where you would have been if you if you joined a larger team early on absolutely uh it would be a liberal arts3:31
education at the University of Amazon which is great spread me wide and get me involved in everything so it is really3:37
wonderful now because uh it does develop in being in touch with all of them sometimes that is sometimes quite often3:42
are the intuition about Amazon that I can't really pinpoint the decision making process that has led me to that I3:49
just know I've ex I've experienced it enough I can feel which way things are going so I very much enjoyed it um I had3:56
a boss that was really really hard track was one of the best experiences in my4:02
life to work for somebody that was very difficult to work with in those those expectations because there were a lot of hats and they all had to look nice4:09
juggling hats is not an easy thing to do when there's 20 in there so it really was trial by fire and I think that4:16
accelerated the learning Curves in a way that I if I was just focused on one4:21
thing trying to do it and not having the holistic experience of touching in all these different elements of Amazon I4:27
don't think it would have led me to the very specific expertise that I have now and again it does come from the Nuance4:34
it just things kind of happen and I think you see I mean from very quick to4:40
changing thousands of PPC bids a day just by looking and going4:45
to high level strategies like we talk about with the machine learning and what4:51
what are we seeing that's not there how can we manipulate what is there to get these these outcomes that we might4:56
expect in failing forward along the way and trying to be ambitious about what we're trying to get5:02
think I could be as productive in those really high level5:08
areas if I didn't start in the front line trenches and continue to exist in those I I still very much am involved in5:16
Daily uh interactions of bids even down to that level along with the newest betas5:23
that Amazon's offering and what's that going to mean for us five years from now I think that's that's really something5:30
that I find similar as well like I think I tell people to to look to become a domain expert in at least one one thing5:37
right of your life even if it's like once you have a domain expertise one nobody can take that away from you but5:42
two it it does allow you I think to to learn faster once you have that first domain expertise there's a theory of5:48
learning on like once you have it your neurons actually like make better neural like faster Pathways for knowledge5:55
dissemination is actually a little bit quicker um but I think the first piece like that that General liberal arts education like6:02
that's something that I know on my end I had as well right I was in charge of advertising but we6:09
touched everything right like buy box you know items crapping out like even sometimes you'd have to go into the warehouse and physically pack a couple6:16
boxes to make an FBA shipment um and it's a lot of those little things in terms of how they connect to our main6:23
role right I think is is really important and it's things that people don't think about but those little nuances really do you know that they're6:29
not going to apply for every account and they're not going to apply for every single day but it's like oh right I remember I had this problem four years6:35
ago with this particular instance now I know how to solve it right because like you said it's almost like6:42
uh trial through mistakes right I learned a lot more from my things that didn't go well than I do when things go6:48
well right when things go well you're going to maintain that status quo But ultimately you know uh it's those6:53
mistakes or those errors that have happened like I don't know if you remember back in the day like we used to pause and Amazon ad campaign you'd see7:00
like another 10 lift and spend that would happen after you pause the campaigns right it's like little things like that that uh you didn't think about7:06
back in the day but once they happened once or okay got in trouble now I know how to deal with this for the future right yeah I agree with that very much7:13
too I would say uh my my personal life uh where I had really built out consistency is a central Focus to who I7:20
am who has as a father who I'm his uh son and a friend all of that applies to what I've learned in Amazon and kind of7:28
have not kind of but really having that True North in all these out of their disciplines flow into a consistency7:33
where just as you said you learn that pausing technique by paying attention7:38
and consistently paying attention in whatever you do I believe is necessary to get to the level where you can have7:44
the creative thought that goes with it you gotta if you when things are going well it's7:49
really easy to take that step back and just let them run and you're really not in the trenches seeing what's going on7:55
uh staying gritty when things are going well I think is what we've done pretty well in pushing each other towards it8:02
things are going really good what else can we look at where else can we fail something where else can we try something and I think that is a8:09
technique that takes practice and refinement and courage to go in because8:14
it sure is nice to just step away sometimes and be like okay it's running good and we we have been through that8:20
process actually your company said was a great disrupter in that because from my point of view hey we were doing8:27
why would we need to do any better but I didn't have the broad scope of what was going on it really wasn't paying8:32
attention to more than really my general focus and it was a great disrupter on that and that8:38
being uncomfortable and fighting through that and continuing to show up even when I didn't understand8:44
asking the questions trying those things out led to really a Renaissance of understanding where there's not a lot of8:50
plateaus we don't we don't we don't stick on plateaus very much anymore we're mostly going up with those little8:56
Downs of such effective learning points because we're paying attention ultimately9:01
well I love how simple you phrase that just paying attention it's it seems to be that like I mean we audit a couple hundred9:08
accounts a year right so I see a lot of things that come through some brands are growing some are flat and then some are9:13
they're here because they weren't paying attention right and they've reached that point where they had growth things were9:18
changing but they weren't changing either right and I think that's that's really one of the things that's fundamentally important uh you know for9:25
for ultimately running a business is understanding that we're not in a we're not in a picture frame of anything and9:31
you know every day is just a snapshot of what's going to happen in the future but things do in fact change like9:37
um I'll say even for you know us like we run you know an Amazon agency where we have a really great strategy from a PPC9:43
perspective but I also know that the reason we're here is because other agencies slept on trying to look for new9:50
innovative ways to to do things right um when I first started and you know this uh I'm sure as well when you first9:56
started Amazon costs for quick bids used to be like five cents a click right and so once cpcs are five cents a click it's10:03
pretty easy to have a good a cost on most Search terms because it's just a basic math problem but as things get10:09
more competitive right things change it's not so easy to just like instantly have the cost per quick bids that you10:14
have right you need to have some higher level of kind of overall strategy to get10:19
things going um one thing I did want to just just touch on that that you mentioned you10:24
know I think coming from someone that has a lot of experience right10:30
um and you guys as you mentioned we're already in a really good place right when we first engage together I think one of the tricky Parts people have10:36
sometimes is like they they become an expert but then they start to not want to listen right um and set to other10:42
folks there because it's like their strategy Works how do you stay you know use the word humble enough to understand10:49
that even though with your knowledge that you have right what what allows you to to be able to still take other people's10:55
inputs right or at least Factor them in or give them a shot you know in terms of your your decision-making processes as a11:01
business yeah sure uh there's the first step of just entertaining the idea and being pliable enough with your thought11:08
process being like okay this is a new idea what could I use how can I massage it and build it into what I'm already11:14
using so uh that plasticity of11:19
forming to what the new stuff coming is really important but staying hard in court to hard and true to the core of11:26
what you know is is important um the step that took the disruption11:32
caused by straight up growth coming into it really shook the core of the foundations that I had built on11:38
that's a trust um it took a lot of trust it did take personal relationships uh it took11:44
knowing that allies are showing up consistently thoughtfully uh in a way11:53
where I don't have to I don't have to have control of everything pointed okay start11:59
relinquishing a little control too even even at a point right now I think12:05
uh our relationship with your company would run just fine if I stepped away just fine I trust down to yes our Tech12:13
who's actually changing everything and doing all of your scheduling and Meredith who's doing a lot of the12:19
coordinating with this they know our brand so much so much that I turned to them for non-adver12:24
so much I turn it in for you General Life advice sometimes even but anything12:29
related to Amazon was really built up through that trust but that was a very hard first step to get through so it was12:36
slow it was hand holding it was hey here's this new idea that12:42
really breaks the Paradigm where you've existed in PPC specifically how like I12:48
mentioned before changing a thousand three thousand bids a day based on this12:56
that's what I had trained myself on for a really really long time so it was it was a very hard thing uh to have my13:04
handheld go through that and I think that Dynamic of the relationship was good because it was approached here's13:11
our here's where you're at here's our idea let's find where they overlap this song let's not break the system and just13:18
go over the list ease over into that way and that relinquishing of control in13:23
those ones really led to a really nice overlap where to even recently a few months ago I went back into the acos kpi that I've13:32
just been training I was like nope we got to do this profitability right now is okay you're losing some focus of13:37
market share you're losing focus of what we're building up to twoth quarter and our support was very gracious and that13:44
great we respect you as the client go ahead we'll we'll make these changes along with you what you say here's what13:50
we expect to see here's what we expect to see if we saw this way uh and13:55
a few 60 days later I was eating crow and I love Crow pie I'm happy to eat14:00
crow pie because it means I'm learning and pushing on those other ones it's still breaking the ideas behind it uh14:05
where we saw a fantastic October we've just reviewing our numbers in team meeting today and it following what was suggested to14:13
us in that time these Investments and being really smart about it where are the conversions at where are the14:18
keywords that really really matter are they driving tacos not a costly these14:23
really important broader scope things that sometimes my binders get in takes trust and14:30
the working together okay like we think it's a mistake we would do it this way14:35
but we'll allow you to go down that's so that's a very very difficult14:41
thing to go to a very hand-holding thing and it takes consistent for me it takes14:46
consistent contact and I'm consistently in contact with14:53
the great story that I think says a lot right I think one of the biggest takeaways you know from this is that15:00
uh it's it's really constantly being active on what's going on right so like you know you brought on a strategy you15:07
tested it out and you still had that moment of where okay I'm gonna fall back to the OG thing right um but what I think is really valuable15:13
there is that you're still not just I'm going to fall back to this and this is it you're still evaluating it in a uh15:21
non-biased way where you're like let me actually measure the performance of both pieces right um and then start to like15:27
work towards that um I think the other piece is I think Brands get uh get scared sometimes because it's15:34
like oh it's either this way or that way right but it's not always that right nothing is usually that rigid right15:39
ideally I think you know running a business is a flexible situation uh yeah we can do all the planning and15:45
forecasting uh you know and create the game the best game plan ever but things break right I mean Amazon just have to15:51
everyone's inventory uh in Seller Central for Q4 right like that's not something that most people plan for but15:57
we have to figure out what a pivot is right to make sure that we we can hit those effectively and I think the brands16:02
that ultimately lasts the longest and go the furthest are the ones that they are experimenting all the time right they16:08
really never stop um there because they're always looking to see how they can improve um and like you said sometimes it doesn't work and I16:15
think also recognizing when it's not executed the way that you'd like it to be interpreting that data and then making16:22
decisions to fix it right versus trying to make an excuse for oh this didn't work because of you know whatever you16:28
know type of thing right yeah it's a uh evolutionary Marketplace and it's the power of natural selection versus16:33
artificial selection yeah natural selection will give you a Divergence over billions of years artificial16:38
selection will give you all the breeds of dogs we have from a wolf 100 000 years ago paying attention trying16:44
cutting out the other ones and formulating it that way allows it to be a a more precise Evolution to really what16:51
you want to but it doesn't remove the hardships that you're going to face it doesn't remove the changes to the16:56
environment it doesn't remove recessions it doesn't remove all that but it17:02
certainly is consistent with trying things out and fighting17:08
fighting this war instead of the previous war with actions that we're taking learning and being informed by17:14
the previous things that we did but recognizing that things have evolved so the same answer might not work this it17:19
worked last time the only way to get through that is trying out the other ones being hybrid pulling different things in and that takes time and17:25
attention ultimately no I totally totally agree um I've got a question so17:32
you know give me where you're at now is there any advice you would have given your younger self when you were first getting started on this this Amazon17:38
train uh here that that you wish you did differently yeah17:44
um you know I give kudos to myself for allowing my teeth to get kicked in17:50
is hard that's it's a really hard thing to do and it's a humbling experience coming from a place as I said in a17:56
previous life I was a teacher so and I was a hand teacher and my business and I got to dictate all that and coming in18:04
and having to humble myself not only to but demanding a boss in that but to man18:10
I just gotta grind this out I have to really allow myself to sink into all18:17
these things and let them penetrate my mind from a hundred different ways so I think if I could give myself advice on18:24
that I would say uh don't fight against it as much as but that's a really hard thing to do because18:30
you learn to go through that the inner feeling of uh I don't want to quit18:37
but that builds up the group too that I think is really really nice but if I could have if I was uh18:43
a wiser man I would have stayed early on consistent that made the18:49
difference that that made the difference really from again I go back to when I was changing a couple thousands of bits18:54
a day that came from consistency that came from a mistake it came from a five18:59
thousand dollar mistake over two days that I had to report back to the boss that I didn't have to report it could19:05
have pushed it under the rug it would have been noticed it would have been okay we're calling out on that beat and here's what it is and that forced my19:12
hand to finally saying okay got it put this on my calendar it got to stay consistent this is the19:18
foundation and then other things can fill in from there of what really needs attention uh so now19:24
as I check in Daily I tell my boss and I said how many hours you work in a week I'm like it doesn't matter you don't19:29
want to put me in that box because once you put me in that box I'm not working seven days a week because I'm working seven days a week right now and when I19:35
wake up in the morning I'm thinking about it but you put me in that box and then I'm gonna not want to be in that point so and that takes consistency it19:43
takes my tabs opens I think about 18 or 19 tabs every day right when I log in19:50
and that Nuance that you start to pick up for I'm picking up data points that I'm not particularly19:56
focusing on when for the Deep dive just because the consistency of it coming in so recognizing what are those important20:03
things that I want to really build on and gain that not just overall knowledge for but again the intuition for how this20:10
interacts with the other ones and just looking at them not not even diving deeper all the time it's just20:15
being exposed to their money so I think if I would have done that on day one my learning curve even goes20:21
quicker than it did I think that's that's really really great input there20:26
um I know for myself I think I probably have slightly different advice for myself but because I was really good20:32
about being consistent about the one that was the one thing I had uh my structure was they put me in charge of20:38
advertising on Amazon when it first launched right it made there was plenty of money coming in from just selling on Amazon so for us it was kind of like I20:45
remember asking my boss after like three weeks I kept asking about you know all these questions like how do I do this all that and then one day he's like20:51
honestly you already know more than I do at this point like you run with it you make the decisions here and so the one20:59
thing I will say I did well was I put all my time and energy into trying to21:05
like just learn right and really soak up all the information I could so I was like okay on YouTube I was looking at21:10
Google searches like I think one thing that people don't some people do but I don't think they do21:15
as well as they could is you can teach yourself almost anything right we live in an era where information is literally21:21
in the palm of your hand like your phone can pretty much figure out anything and then it's one the knowledge will21:28
give you a baseline but it's the it's the practice right that ultimately makes you an expert and really hits the21:33
learning Peach so so being consistent being able to take a kick kick to the teeth like you mentioned I think is21:39
important too and not to get discouraged because you're incorrect like I tell my team be happy when you make that mistake21:45
right as long as you're learning from that mistake and you know okay I overspent on this campaign I'm not going21:52
to make this mistake again because I've had it happen right because of the circumstance um yeah so right I think that's really21:59
important too and hey this is a carry over from my personal life accountability for those type of things22:04
sharing that type of vulnerability with my boss in that particular situation not only established trust relationship Wars22:10
but gave me a safe space to make mistakes and say it's okay so even having that with a different Ally if22:15
you've been it's not someone you're working with be like hey this is what I'm feeling I'm feeling overwhelmed I made this mistake I'm feeling guilty22:22
because whatever it is to approach where we're at I think allows us to do a heck of a better job of making decisions at22:28
70 or 80 percent instead of trying to get up to the 95 or 100 percent and again failing forward because it's okay22:35
to do that and my experience with other folks I've talked to myself is that is22:40
that that's what pushes board in in Silicon Valley it's if you're not failing big enough you're simply not22:46
ambitious enough and I'm not on that level and I appreciate where it's coming from but going to be like okay if I'm22:51
not trying out something new then I'm I'm sitting back I'm failing22:57
I'm just on that Plateau so let's try something out new and to build that trust with not only other people but23:03
trusting myself forgiving myself in those situations not just asking for forgiveness that really leads to a23:10
comfortability where it's it's okay not only okay as you say it's encouraged to23:15
make mistakes it is a wonderful thing to be thankful about it because that five thousand dollar mistake I talked about23:21
two days before that was the best mistake I made in my professional career maybe and I've made some pretty big ones23:28
but that one was what moved the needle to consistency which just really made a change in my life well professionally23:34
and personally I think it's just huge just great great advice there23:39
um I think one question I'd have for you like you've got your your kids right uh23:44
you're working for a US brand and you're uh you know working abroad uh there you've got different time zones how do23:50
you balance all that um there you know I know like you're super in the weeds and when it comes to Amazon I know it's23:55
something you're you're thinking about on a daily basis how do you have space for everything else yeah sure uh my24:01
first call this morning was 3 A.M uh Korean Standard time for our 2 p.m24:07
Eastern call and then I had a reference call after that and talking to him and it was six24:13
in the morning like I don't think I could do that how do you do that um24:19
I I what I really do is listen to my body I'd take a nap about every day uh24:25
if I wake up early I wake up and I do wake up often I set my alarm at 2 A.M24:30
this morning as of the 1 50. my body is changed and it knows that it's coming24:36
because I have a practice that I go into and my body knows that my mind will say come back to sleep my body will say I'm24:43
awake I'm honoring You by doing this so go into it and then it's that stuff so I've been awake for it's 8 35 a.m and24:50
I've been awake for six and a half hours now and I'm on fire uh it feels really really24:56
good so personally that's how I handle it um I don't fight against what my body's25:02
telling me and I do honor my body with mint every day and day and Stillness and silence and good food so that that keeps25:08
me healthy where I can flow where I need to invent and working with other people it is difficult coordinating times for25:15
calls uh it is there is a nice balance of being overseas that my phone doesn't25:21
ring all day so I am quite productive so if that production comes at 2 p.m or 7 P.M or 225:29
A.M it's okay so it that has been difficult in times but I think also when25:37
skillfully done allowed to draw boundaries and say hey here's what I do we need queer Communication in a short25:43
amount of time I need direction here's my feedback let's go from there and that leads to not having we do have set time25:50
for just brainstorming and just going off the wall but direct communication and driving25:55
down the wasted meeting time it's a really big thing the wasting time26:02
on the phone himming and eyeing and going off agenda I'm very good about for each of my calls I have an agenda that26:07
is live and it's updated throughout the week before we have our weekly calls so that's where we're going back to it's a26:13
reference point and that keeps us really on point and allows me to know what I'm doing when I can't get in touch with26:18
somebody and also allows the people that I'm providing stuff with or asking for to be clear and something to reference26:25
back to when I might not be available during that time I like that I really like the uh26:31
the agenda piece because it does create some structure right in some organization so things don't slip through the cracks right given the fact26:37
that you may not have the most conducive situation to like communicate with someone out here but you're going to26:43
make sure that you're probably even more on point than someone that is out here as well right um in that case right I26:49
would argue that's the case that's been my experience with it and Meredith has been wonderful at adopting that also we26:54
have an ongoing one for all right and I just throw something up on there and when we do a review for it we know exactly where we're at and what we need27:00
to talk about for the coming two week check-in calls so it has been very useful for that and I have had27:05
experience both in company and out of company where it's an hour spent together and that was a 10 minute meeting that was actionable for 1027:12
minutes with me and that other 50 minutes you would rather have me board27:17
and allowing things to just formulate in my mind and think so not avoiding what27:23
I'm doing not checked in just for an hour of doing that when I do that that's kind of like the Box again for me27:28
personally is an independent person when I put inside of that box I'm in the box or out of the27:34
box box is not there I am a responsible skillful talented person in my area and27:41
then other things go on there so I might be shooting baskets with my 10 year old and think oh that's the solution I was27:48
looking for or oh hey let's try this out because there's no box it just kind of27:54
everything so it's the balance is really important you just you really just hit a vein that I think is really strong in there like that28:00
uh I'm not necessarily a believer in like the traditional like nine-to-five working hour type of schedule thing like28:06
I'm more on the plane that you are where it's like when you're like listening to your body28:12
or listening to to your brain like I know when I'm tired and I'm going to meetings I'm like I'm not there right28:18
it's just like it's not the same amount of time versus there's times like uh you28:24
know I went out with uh got this guy Alex on my team and my brother Marco and we we went we play golf right not28:30
talking about work at all you know went out uh got drinks whole thing and then like later that night all of a sudden we28:36
had some like Epiphany moments right and it's just like casually like some of the best ideas we've come up with in terms28:41
of like some of the operational things just came from like a casual just hang you know not necessarily being in that28:47
place but I feel like some of my best ideas like like when I started doing28:52
ranking I was at a concert um there and I literally had this Theory I'm like what if I started ranking or28:59
what have I tried to buy my SEO it was with this brand uh so I'm single Pomade and then this was back in 2016 so it was29:05
really cheap um spent like 200 and all of a sudden I'm the number one organic right ranking product for the term29:11
parmit I'm like this is an interesting being right and then just kept testing it and then ultimately you know billion29:17
dollars later right here we are but it's that not in the Box time that actually29:22
really allowed me to to get some of the best ideas going right do you remember what concert was uh I do it was this Zoo29:29
concert it was in L.A Zeus is Con this DJ artist whatever that I really like uh29:35
and I was literally thinking to myself like I I appreciate when people just do29:41
themselves right and they're very authentic um and they'll just do kind of the a version of themselves and like29:47
ultimately he figured out a way to monetize something that he came up with on his own and so kind of through that29:52
kind of stimulated like what can I come up with on my own right because most of what I have been doing from a Amazon perspective I'm basically30:00
just regurgitating what I saw on YouTube or seller Locker like or seller labs and30:05
the amazing seller and all those you know resources but one of the things if you're doing the same thing as everybody else30:11
eventually there's a like that thing doesn't work as well because everybody else does it right um it's like when30:17
Facebook ads first launched you know it was the guys that really blew up or the guys that were on there early right um30:23
for me I jumped to Amazon ads because they said do you want to be the first person to do Amazon ads I got excited30:28
about first but it's what you do with it from there right it's that Innovation piece but yeah I remember I do remember30:33
the moment at this concert I do a lot of things that come I quit my job at a concert one time I decided I have an30:39
epiphany on that I didn't quit live but I mentally decided I needed to leave a job like one of those things wow I30:46
wonder what you're gonna do when we get you to burning man right watch out30:54
and that'll be our Rockets30:59
oh man um well cool well Matthew I've been31:04
super appreciative of the time today um I think this is really really fun kind of learning your story you know31:10
learning what has um allowed you to see such success you know at this point in your life31:16
um here any sort of last pieces of advice you have for someone uh as we let31:21
you go before we'll let you go uh yeah I think a difficult thing for people uh coming in is founding finding allies and31:28
talking to them and be vulnerable um if you're putting in the work on your side there are people who are out there31:34
to help you if you're looking for someone else to carry your load for you'll put your work for you don't you're doing your work on your side and31:41
you call out to me and I see that I'll help you if I don't know you and there's a lot of good people do that out there31:47
but it does require in yogurt you're showing up and doing that uh but finding that trial uh and31:55
people will talk to the way that Daniel and I can talk to each other it is invigorating uh and as you can see we're32:03
enthusiastic uh and enthusiasm it's contagious uh and unrefined enthusiastic32:09
person is showing up as better to me than the MBA who just came out of one of the top schools gave me that enthusiasm32:16
give me somebody who wants to show up and do that work because we're going to have a lot more and it really is fun being at a concert32:23
I love cool nerds and you're such a cool nerd that you're at the show and thinking about this technique while32:29
you're grooming to a DJ individual surely too late for it and that is I think a balance that can be found but it32:36
has to be tried out it's not linear it's not a step-by-step type thing and I32:42
think the way that we take those steps both for personal growth and professional growth in a healthy way32:48
that doesn't get things out of balance is finding other allies who we can do that with and we can hold ourselves32:53
accountable to and both professional and personally to have people specifically I33:00
talk to there hey you did this well you said you were going to do this it's not hey I told you to do this yes you've33:07
been LED what did you say you were going to do did you did you and I I have found those books33:13
personally and professionally where that has led to immense amounts of growth to have that accountability really find my33:19
tribe around it we're excited about we're excited to fail together we're excited to settle together and we're33:25
excited to succeed together uh it just brings a levity to everything because it33:30
really is digging trenches and sometimes being in a fossil in the front line the bombs falling everywhere that can33:36
actually be an enjoyable experience if you got the right person next to you so reach out and find those people33:41
incredible advice uh I know it's something I myself have definitely uh33:46
experienced like when I first started I went to every networking event I could right and I go by myself and it's33:53
awkward right you're sitting there and I was like 21 years old and I'm super excited about this Amazon thing that nobody else cares about33:59
um but eventually I found people that care about it right and gave me the right input that did give me good advice for for down the line um and it's like34:06
you know dealing with someone like Matthew it's fun talking to someone that cares right it is is actively you know34:13
as passionate about this as I am right um there we may have different opinions from time to time and it's not like we're not gonna uh say that we think we34:20
should do this or whatever but it's the fact that we both care so much that really makes it you know a fun34:26
experience together so thank you very much thank you Matthew uh definitely you know reach out to to uh34:33
to Matthew here you can find him on LinkedIn it's a super awesome guy um he also lives in Korea which is crazy34:38
uh doing some some wild stuff there uh but yeah really really awesome people thank you so much for for coming on34:45
today and uh have a good day absolutely I look forward to seeing you on the mini golf course next time my friend I'm34:51
gonna win some of my money back man your son's gonna keep taking my money all right Daniel thanks bro later34:58
bye-bye
The Straight Up Visionary Podcast dives deep into the career and story of leading Amazon and eCommerce advertisers, as well as entrepreneurs and Amazon Sellers.
______________________________________________________________________
Matthew Mangione has been swimming in the waters of Amazon Advertising for close to a decade, long enough to remember when clicks truly came a dime a dozen and the Amazon ocean was a vast blue expanse, not shark filled waters teeming with chum. He finds significance in showing up and being present, exploding the paradigm of “work / life balance,” enjoying Betta fish and Amazon Beta tests, and writing about himself in the third person.
Daniel + Matthew recall the early days in their career, learning Amazon Advertising through trial and error.
Some of Matthew and Daniel's key learnings:
• Embracing failure is the key to rapidly increasing your growth.
"If you're not failing enough, you're not trying hard enough"
• Accountability and a continued trust is key between an agency and brand relationship
• How remote work can empower you to travel and work anywhere in the world
______________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________
Transcript:
what's up guys it's Daniel tahada here from straight up growth uh I have on here Matthew from copper compressions0:07he's a growth strategy of operations uh I also like to think of him as my counterpart on the machine learning side0:12
of things when it comes to Amazon Matthew thanks for for coming on board here today yeah I like to consider0:18
myself uh the soda to Daniel scotch and if so I love it uh but yeah we're0:27
really excited to have uh Matthew on board today Matthew why don't you just give us a quick kind of rundown on sort0:32
of what you do right now um and then we'll kind of jump into some fun stuff from there sure uh in a past0:38
life I was a teacher in South Korea uh and it made to jump over to Amazon0:43
started my own brand uh back in the day moved back to the States0:48
and was continuing with my own brand but got hired on by a friend who had started a brand0:54
and really fell into that a lot more my general Brandon started off it's just thinking I really wasn't Instagram with1:01
my own stuff as I was with other people's for whatever reason so I really dove in and helped build up a brand1:07
called Copper compression and it was started by a friend really bootstrapped uh when I came on I was the first uh1:14
full-time employee outside of the two owners we have a wonderful virtual assistant in the Philippines uh We Grew1:21
From there uh and it was fantastic and been existing in the space since about 2016 with copper compression for that1:28
whole time I started my own brand about 2015. uh and have evolved into a role1:34
from wearing a lot of hats back in the day you could see these hands photoshopped with some of the old1:41
products on and my wife was included on some of the product listings so the whole Gambit avoiding a ton of hats uh1:48
to a point where we got acquired by uh a company based out of Manhattan uh in1:53
July 2019 and then I started focusing a lot more really what my strengths were and what my areas of uh of learned2:01
expertise was that was a great thing about Amazon I didn't know anything coming in and then back through the old2:06
the jungle Scout days and learning and watching the YouTube videos and getting in there and trial by air I don't know2:12
any other way to really go about it there's no knowledge base that can supplant actually going in and doing it2:17
yourself and being awake at four in the morning because you screwed something up and you got to fix it up so go going2:22
through all those processes again through to a place now where I really focus on one one of my main driving2:28
factors is talking to Amazon and saying give me in any data you can I want to be involved in any beta so it's evolved2:35
into a lot more for the growth strategies and operations too how do we not only refine what we're doing but how2:40
do we get into these new feel which way the wind is blowing from the uh from the Amazon gods and set our2:47
sales in that Direction that's awesome and there's just there's so much to unpack like2:53
through all the things you said here I want to start with with uh the first piece you mentioned you were employee number one right at that uh when you2:59
first started uh there I also came from a background where uh I worked at one of3:05
the earliest uh authorized Amazon sellers called quiver and I was employed number seven there and the the wearing a3:11
lot of hats I I think there's um there's a lot of advantages to it but it's not always the easiest thing to do3:18
so I'm curious like how'd you feel about that experience do you think that ultimately you know was fruitful for you in the long run or do you think it took3:24
away from where you would have been if you if you joined a larger team early on absolutely uh it would be a liberal arts3:31
education at the University of Amazon which is great spread me wide and get me involved in everything so it is really3:37
wonderful now because uh it does develop in being in touch with all of them sometimes that is sometimes quite often3:42
are the intuition about Amazon that I can't really pinpoint the decision making process that has led me to that I3:49
just know I've ex I've experienced it enough I can feel which way things are going so I very much enjoyed it um I had3:56
a boss that was really really hard track was one of the best experiences in my4:02
life to work for somebody that was very difficult to work with in those those expectations because there were a lot of hats and they all had to look nice4:09
juggling hats is not an easy thing to do when there's 20 in there so it really was trial by fire and I think that4:16
accelerated the learning Curves in a way that I if I was just focused on one4:21
thing trying to do it and not having the holistic experience of touching in all these different elements of Amazon I4:27
don't think it would have led me to the very specific expertise that I have now and again it does come from the Nuance4:34
it just things kind of happen and I think you see I mean from very quick to4:40
changing thousands of PPC bids a day just by looking and going4:45
to high level strategies like we talk about with the machine learning and what4:51
what are we seeing that's not there how can we manipulate what is there to get these these outcomes that we might4:56
expect in failing forward along the way and trying to be ambitious about what we're trying to get5:02
think I could be as productive in those really high level5:08
areas if I didn't start in the front line trenches and continue to exist in those I I still very much am involved in5:16
Daily uh interactions of bids even down to that level along with the newest betas5:23
that Amazon's offering and what's that going to mean for us five years from now I think that's that's really something5:30
that I find similar as well like I think I tell people to to look to become a domain expert in at least one one thing5:37
right of your life even if it's like once you have a domain expertise one nobody can take that away from you but5:42
two it it does allow you I think to to learn faster once you have that first domain expertise there's a theory of5:48
learning on like once you have it your neurons actually like make better neural like faster Pathways for knowledge5:55
dissemination is actually a little bit quicker um but I think the first piece like that that General liberal arts education like6:02
that's something that I know on my end I had as well right I was in charge of advertising but we6:09
touched everything right like buy box you know items crapping out like even sometimes you'd have to go into the warehouse and physically pack a couple6:16
boxes to make an FBA shipment um and it's a lot of those little things in terms of how they connect to our main6:23
role right I think is is really important and it's things that people don't think about but those little nuances really do you know that they're6:29
not going to apply for every account and they're not going to apply for every single day but it's like oh right I remember I had this problem four years6:35
ago with this particular instance now I know how to solve it right because like you said it's almost like6:42
uh trial through mistakes right I learned a lot more from my things that didn't go well than I do when things go6:48
well right when things go well you're going to maintain that status quo But ultimately you know uh it's those6:53
mistakes or those errors that have happened like I don't know if you remember back in the day like we used to pause and Amazon ad campaign you'd see7:00
like another 10 lift and spend that would happen after you pause the campaigns right it's like little things like that that uh you didn't think about7:06
back in the day but once they happened once or okay got in trouble now I know how to deal with this for the future right yeah I agree with that very much7:13
too I would say uh my my personal life uh where I had really built out consistency is a central Focus to who I7:20
am who has as a father who I'm his uh son and a friend all of that applies to what I've learned in Amazon and kind of7:28
have not kind of but really having that True North in all these out of their disciplines flow into a consistency7:33
where just as you said you learn that pausing technique by paying attention7:38
and consistently paying attention in whatever you do I believe is necessary to get to the level where you can have7:44
the creative thought that goes with it you gotta if you when things are going well it's7:49
really easy to take that step back and just let them run and you're really not in the trenches seeing what's going on7:55
uh staying gritty when things are going well I think is what we've done pretty well in pushing each other towards it8:02
things are going really good what else can we look at where else can we fail something where else can we try something and I think that is a8:09
technique that takes practice and refinement and courage to go in because8:14
it sure is nice to just step away sometimes and be like okay it's running good and we we have been through that8:20
process actually your company said was a great disrupter in that because from my point of view hey we were doing8:27
why would we need to do any better but I didn't have the broad scope of what was going on it really wasn't paying8:32
attention to more than really my general focus and it was a great disrupter on that and that8:38
being uncomfortable and fighting through that and continuing to show up even when I didn't understand8:44
asking the questions trying those things out led to really a Renaissance of understanding where there's not a lot of8:50
plateaus we don't we don't we don't stick on plateaus very much anymore we're mostly going up with those little8:56
Downs of such effective learning points because we're paying attention ultimately9:01
well I love how simple you phrase that just paying attention it's it seems to be that like I mean we audit a couple hundred9:08
accounts a year right so I see a lot of things that come through some brands are growing some are flat and then some are9:13
they're here because they weren't paying attention right and they've reached that point where they had growth things were9:18
changing but they weren't changing either right and I think that's that's really one of the things that's fundamentally important uh you know for9:25
for ultimately running a business is understanding that we're not in a we're not in a picture frame of anything and9:31
you know every day is just a snapshot of what's going to happen in the future but things do in fact change like9:37
um I'll say even for you know us like we run you know an Amazon agency where we have a really great strategy from a PPC9:43
perspective but I also know that the reason we're here is because other agencies slept on trying to look for new9:50
innovative ways to to do things right um when I first started and you know this uh I'm sure as well when you first9:56
started Amazon costs for quick bids used to be like five cents a click right and so once cpcs are five cents a click it's10:03
pretty easy to have a good a cost on most Search terms because it's just a basic math problem but as things get10:09
more competitive right things change it's not so easy to just like instantly have the cost per quick bids that you10:14
have right you need to have some higher level of kind of overall strategy to get10:19
things going um one thing I did want to just just touch on that that you mentioned you10:24
know I think coming from someone that has a lot of experience right10:30
um and you guys as you mentioned we're already in a really good place right when we first engage together I think one of the tricky Parts people have10:36
sometimes is like they they become an expert but then they start to not want to listen right um and set to other10:42
folks there because it's like their strategy Works how do you stay you know use the word humble enough to understand10:49
that even though with your knowledge that you have right what what allows you to to be able to still take other people's10:55
inputs right or at least Factor them in or give them a shot you know in terms of your your decision-making processes as a11:01
business yeah sure uh there's the first step of just entertaining the idea and being pliable enough with your thought11:08
process being like okay this is a new idea what could I use how can I massage it and build it into what I'm already11:14
using so uh that plasticity of11:19
forming to what the new stuff coming is really important but staying hard in court to hard and true to the core of11:26
what you know is is important um the step that took the disruption11:32
caused by straight up growth coming into it really shook the core of the foundations that I had built on11:38
that's a trust um it took a lot of trust it did take personal relationships uh it took11:44
knowing that allies are showing up consistently thoughtfully uh in a way11:53
where I don't have to I don't have to have control of everything pointed okay start11:59
relinquishing a little control too even even at a point right now I think12:05
uh our relationship with your company would run just fine if I stepped away just fine I trust down to yes our Tech12:13
who's actually changing everything and doing all of your scheduling and Meredith who's doing a lot of the12:19
coordinating with this they know our brand so much so much that I turned to them for non-adver12:24
so much I turn it in for you General Life advice sometimes even but anything12:29
related to Amazon was really built up through that trust but that was a very hard first step to get through so it was12:36
slow it was hand holding it was hey here's this new idea that12:42
really breaks the Paradigm where you've existed in PPC specifically how like I12:48
mentioned before changing a thousand three thousand bids a day based on this12:56
that's what I had trained myself on for a really really long time so it was it was a very hard thing uh to have my13:04
handheld go through that and I think that Dynamic of the relationship was good because it was approached here's13:11
our here's where you're at here's our idea let's find where they overlap this song let's not break the system and just13:18
go over the list ease over into that way and that relinquishing of control in13:23
those ones really led to a really nice overlap where to even recently a few months ago I went back into the acos kpi that I've13:32
just been training I was like nope we got to do this profitability right now is okay you're losing some focus of13:37
market share you're losing focus of what we're building up to twoth quarter and our support was very gracious and that13:44
great we respect you as the client go ahead we'll we'll make these changes along with you what you say here's what13:50
we expect to see here's what we expect to see if we saw this way uh and13:55
a few 60 days later I was eating crow and I love Crow pie I'm happy to eat14:00
crow pie because it means I'm learning and pushing on those other ones it's still breaking the ideas behind it uh14:05
where we saw a fantastic October we've just reviewing our numbers in team meeting today and it following what was suggested to14:13
us in that time these Investments and being really smart about it where are the conversions at where are the14:18
keywords that really really matter are they driving tacos not a costly these14:23
really important broader scope things that sometimes my binders get in takes trust and14:30
the working together okay like we think it's a mistake we would do it this way14:35
but we'll allow you to go down that's so that's a very very difficult14:41
thing to go to a very hand-holding thing and it takes consistent for me it takes14:46
consistent contact and I'm consistently in contact with14:53
the great story that I think says a lot right I think one of the biggest takeaways you know from this is that15:00
uh it's it's really constantly being active on what's going on right so like you know you brought on a strategy you15:07
tested it out and you still had that moment of where okay I'm gonna fall back to the OG thing right um but what I think is really valuable15:13
there is that you're still not just I'm going to fall back to this and this is it you're still evaluating it in a uh15:21
non-biased way where you're like let me actually measure the performance of both pieces right um and then start to like15:27
work towards that um I think the other piece is I think Brands get uh get scared sometimes because it's15:34
like oh it's either this way or that way right but it's not always that right nothing is usually that rigid right15:39
ideally I think you know running a business is a flexible situation uh yeah we can do all the planning and15:45
forecasting uh you know and create the game the best game plan ever but things break right I mean Amazon just have to15:51
everyone's inventory uh in Seller Central for Q4 right like that's not something that most people plan for but15:57
we have to figure out what a pivot is right to make sure that we we can hit those effectively and I think the brands16:02
that ultimately lasts the longest and go the furthest are the ones that they are experimenting all the time right they16:08
really never stop um there because they're always looking to see how they can improve um and like you said sometimes it doesn't work and I16:15
think also recognizing when it's not executed the way that you'd like it to be interpreting that data and then making16:22
decisions to fix it right versus trying to make an excuse for oh this didn't work because of you know whatever you16:28
know type of thing right yeah it's a uh evolutionary Marketplace and it's the power of natural selection versus16:33
artificial selection yeah natural selection will give you a Divergence over billions of years artificial16:38
selection will give you all the breeds of dogs we have from a wolf 100 000 years ago paying attention trying16:44
cutting out the other ones and formulating it that way allows it to be a a more precise Evolution to really what16:51
you want to but it doesn't remove the hardships that you're going to face it doesn't remove the changes to the16:56
environment it doesn't remove recessions it doesn't remove all that but it17:02
certainly is consistent with trying things out and fighting17:08
fighting this war instead of the previous war with actions that we're taking learning and being informed by17:14
the previous things that we did but recognizing that things have evolved so the same answer might not work this it17:19
worked last time the only way to get through that is trying out the other ones being hybrid pulling different things in and that takes time and17:25
attention ultimately no I totally totally agree um I've got a question so17:32
you know give me where you're at now is there any advice you would have given your younger self when you were first getting started on this this Amazon17:38
train uh here that that you wish you did differently yeah17:44
um you know I give kudos to myself for allowing my teeth to get kicked in17:50
is hard that's it's a really hard thing to do and it's a humbling experience coming from a place as I said in a17:56
previous life I was a teacher so and I was a hand teacher and my business and I got to dictate all that and coming in18:04
and having to humble myself not only to but demanding a boss in that but to man18:10
I just gotta grind this out I have to really allow myself to sink into all18:17
these things and let them penetrate my mind from a hundred different ways so I think if I could give myself advice on18:24
that I would say uh don't fight against it as much as but that's a really hard thing to do because18:30
you learn to go through that the inner feeling of uh I don't want to quit18:37
but that builds up the group too that I think is really really nice but if I could have if I was uh18:43
a wiser man I would have stayed early on consistent that made the18:49
difference that that made the difference really from again I go back to when I was changing a couple thousands of bits18:54
a day that came from consistency that came from a mistake it came from a five18:59
thousand dollar mistake over two days that I had to report back to the boss that I didn't have to report it could19:05
have pushed it under the rug it would have been noticed it would have been okay we're calling out on that beat and here's what it is and that forced my19:12
hand to finally saying okay got it put this on my calendar it got to stay consistent this is the19:18
foundation and then other things can fill in from there of what really needs attention uh so now19:24
as I check in Daily I tell my boss and I said how many hours you work in a week I'm like it doesn't matter you don't19:29
want to put me in that box because once you put me in that box I'm not working seven days a week because I'm working seven days a week right now and when I19:35
wake up in the morning I'm thinking about it but you put me in that box and then I'm gonna not want to be in that point so and that takes consistency it19:43
takes my tabs opens I think about 18 or 19 tabs every day right when I log in19:50
and that Nuance that you start to pick up for I'm picking up data points that I'm not particularly19:56
focusing on when for the Deep dive just because the consistency of it coming in so recognizing what are those important20:03
things that I want to really build on and gain that not just overall knowledge for but again the intuition for how this20:10
interacts with the other ones and just looking at them not not even diving deeper all the time it's just20:15
being exposed to their money so I think if I would have done that on day one my learning curve even goes20:21
quicker than it did I think that's that's really really great input there20:26
um I know for myself I think I probably have slightly different advice for myself but because I was really good20:32
about being consistent about the one that was the one thing I had uh my structure was they put me in charge of20:38
advertising on Amazon when it first launched right it made there was plenty of money coming in from just selling on Amazon so for us it was kind of like I20:45
remember asking my boss after like three weeks I kept asking about you know all these questions like how do I do this all that and then one day he's like20:51
honestly you already know more than I do at this point like you run with it you make the decisions here and so the one20:59
thing I will say I did well was I put all my time and energy into trying to21:05
like just learn right and really soak up all the information I could so I was like okay on YouTube I was looking at21:10
Google searches like I think one thing that people don't some people do but I don't think they do21:15
as well as they could is you can teach yourself almost anything right we live in an era where information is literally21:21
in the palm of your hand like your phone can pretty much figure out anything and then it's one the knowledge will21:28
give you a baseline but it's the it's the practice right that ultimately makes you an expert and really hits the21:33
learning Peach so so being consistent being able to take a kick kick to the teeth like you mentioned I think is21:39
important too and not to get discouraged because you're incorrect like I tell my team be happy when you make that mistake21:45
right as long as you're learning from that mistake and you know okay I overspent on this campaign I'm not going21:52
to make this mistake again because I've had it happen right because of the circumstance um yeah so right I think that's really21:59
important too and hey this is a carry over from my personal life accountability for those type of things22:04
sharing that type of vulnerability with my boss in that particular situation not only established trust relationship Wars22:10
but gave me a safe space to make mistakes and say it's okay so even having that with a different Ally if22:15
you've been it's not someone you're working with be like hey this is what I'm feeling I'm feeling overwhelmed I made this mistake I'm feeling guilty22:22
because whatever it is to approach where we're at I think allows us to do a heck of a better job of making decisions at22:28
70 or 80 percent instead of trying to get up to the 95 or 100 percent and again failing forward because it's okay22:35
to do that and my experience with other folks I've talked to myself is that is22:40
that that's what pushes board in in Silicon Valley it's if you're not failing big enough you're simply not22:46
ambitious enough and I'm not on that level and I appreciate where it's coming from but going to be like okay if I'm22:51
not trying out something new then I'm I'm sitting back I'm failing22:57
I'm just on that Plateau so let's try something out new and to build that trust with not only other people but23:03
trusting myself forgiving myself in those situations not just asking for forgiveness that really leads to a23:10
comfortability where it's it's okay not only okay as you say it's encouraged to23:15
make mistakes it is a wonderful thing to be thankful about it because that five thousand dollar mistake I talked about23:21
two days before that was the best mistake I made in my professional career maybe and I've made some pretty big ones23:28
but that one was what moved the needle to consistency which just really made a change in my life well professionally23:34
and personally I think it's just huge just great great advice there23:39
um I think one question I'd have for you like you've got your your kids right uh23:44
you're working for a US brand and you're uh you know working abroad uh there you've got different time zones how do23:50
you balance all that um there you know I know like you're super in the weeds and when it comes to Amazon I know it's23:55
something you're you're thinking about on a daily basis how do you have space for everything else yeah sure uh my24:01
first call this morning was 3 A.M uh Korean Standard time for our 2 p.m24:07
Eastern call and then I had a reference call after that and talking to him and it was six24:13
in the morning like I don't think I could do that how do you do that um24:19
I I what I really do is listen to my body I'd take a nap about every day uh24:25
if I wake up early I wake up and I do wake up often I set my alarm at 2 A.M24:30
this morning as of the 1 50. my body is changed and it knows that it's coming24:36
because I have a practice that I go into and my body knows that my mind will say come back to sleep my body will say I'm24:43
awake I'm honoring You by doing this so go into it and then it's that stuff so I've been awake for it's 8 35 a.m and24:50
I've been awake for six and a half hours now and I'm on fire uh it feels really really24:56
good so personally that's how I handle it um I don't fight against what my body's25:02
telling me and I do honor my body with mint every day and day and Stillness and silence and good food so that that keeps25:08
me healthy where I can flow where I need to invent and working with other people it is difficult coordinating times for25:15
calls uh it is there is a nice balance of being overseas that my phone doesn't25:21
ring all day so I am quite productive so if that production comes at 2 p.m or 7 P.M or 225:29
A.M it's okay so it that has been difficult in times but I think also when25:37
skillfully done allowed to draw boundaries and say hey here's what I do we need queer Communication in a short25:43
amount of time I need direction here's my feedback let's go from there and that leads to not having we do have set time25:50
for just brainstorming and just going off the wall but direct communication and driving25:55
down the wasted meeting time it's a really big thing the wasting time26:02
on the phone himming and eyeing and going off agenda I'm very good about for each of my calls I have an agenda that26:07
is live and it's updated throughout the week before we have our weekly calls so that's where we're going back to it's a26:13
reference point and that keeps us really on point and allows me to know what I'm doing when I can't get in touch with26:18
somebody and also allows the people that I'm providing stuff with or asking for to be clear and something to reference26:25
back to when I might not be available during that time I like that I really like the uh26:31
the agenda piece because it does create some structure right in some organization so things don't slip through the cracks right given the fact26:37
that you may not have the most conducive situation to like communicate with someone out here but you're going to26:43
make sure that you're probably even more on point than someone that is out here as well right um in that case right I26:49
would argue that's the case that's been my experience with it and Meredith has been wonderful at adopting that also we26:54
have an ongoing one for all right and I just throw something up on there and when we do a review for it we know exactly where we're at and what we need27:00
to talk about for the coming two week check-in calls so it has been very useful for that and I have had27:05
experience both in company and out of company where it's an hour spent together and that was a 10 minute meeting that was actionable for 1027:12
minutes with me and that other 50 minutes you would rather have me board27:17
and allowing things to just formulate in my mind and think so not avoiding what27:23
I'm doing not checked in just for an hour of doing that when I do that that's kind of like the Box again for me27:28
personally is an independent person when I put inside of that box I'm in the box or out of the27:34
box box is not there I am a responsible skillful talented person in my area and27:41
then other things go on there so I might be shooting baskets with my 10 year old and think oh that's the solution I was27:48
looking for or oh hey let's try this out because there's no box it just kind of27:54
everything so it's the balance is really important you just you really just hit a vein that I think is really strong in there like that28:00
uh I'm not necessarily a believer in like the traditional like nine-to-five working hour type of schedule thing like28:06
I'm more on the plane that you are where it's like when you're like listening to your body28:12
or listening to to your brain like I know when I'm tired and I'm going to meetings I'm like I'm not there right28:18
it's just like it's not the same amount of time versus there's times like uh you28:24
know I went out with uh got this guy Alex on my team and my brother Marco and we we went we play golf right not28:30
talking about work at all you know went out uh got drinks whole thing and then like later that night all of a sudden we28:36
had some like Epiphany moments right and it's just like casually like some of the best ideas we've come up with in terms28:41
of like some of the operational things just came from like a casual just hang you know not necessarily being in that28:47
place but I feel like some of my best ideas like like when I started doing28:52
ranking I was at a concert um there and I literally had this Theory I'm like what if I started ranking or28:59
what have I tried to buy my SEO it was with this brand uh so I'm single Pomade and then this was back in 2016 so it was29:05
really cheap um spent like 200 and all of a sudden I'm the number one organic right ranking product for the term29:11
parmit I'm like this is an interesting being right and then just kept testing it and then ultimately you know billion29:17
dollars later right here we are but it's that not in the Box time that actually29:22
really allowed me to to get some of the best ideas going right do you remember what concert was uh I do it was this Zoo29:29
concert it was in L.A Zeus is Con this DJ artist whatever that I really like uh29:35
and I was literally thinking to myself like I I appreciate when people just do29:41
themselves right and they're very authentic um and they'll just do kind of the a version of themselves and like29:47
ultimately he figured out a way to monetize something that he came up with on his own and so kind of through that29:52
kind of stimulated like what can I come up with on my own right because most of what I have been doing from a Amazon perspective I'm basically30:00
just regurgitating what I saw on YouTube or seller Locker like or seller labs and30:05
the amazing seller and all those you know resources but one of the things if you're doing the same thing as everybody else30:11
eventually there's a like that thing doesn't work as well because everybody else does it right um it's like when30:17
Facebook ads first launched you know it was the guys that really blew up or the guys that were on there early right um30:23
for me I jumped to Amazon ads because they said do you want to be the first person to do Amazon ads I got excited30:28
about first but it's what you do with it from there right it's that Innovation piece but yeah I remember I do remember30:33
the moment at this concert I do a lot of things that come I quit my job at a concert one time I decided I have an30:39
epiphany on that I didn't quit live but I mentally decided I needed to leave a job like one of those things wow I30:46
wonder what you're gonna do when we get you to burning man right watch out30:54
and that'll be our Rockets30:59
oh man um well cool well Matthew I've been31:04
super appreciative of the time today um I think this is really really fun kind of learning your story you know31:10
learning what has um allowed you to see such success you know at this point in your life31:16
um here any sort of last pieces of advice you have for someone uh as we let31:21
you go before we'll let you go uh yeah I think a difficult thing for people uh coming in is founding finding allies and31:28
talking to them and be vulnerable um if you're putting in the work on your side there are people who are out there31:34
to help you if you're looking for someone else to carry your load for you'll put your work for you don't you're doing your work on your side and31:41
you call out to me and I see that I'll help you if I don't know you and there's a lot of good people do that out there31:47
but it does require in yogurt you're showing up and doing that uh but finding that trial uh and31:55
people will talk to the way that Daniel and I can talk to each other it is invigorating uh and as you can see we're32:03
enthusiastic uh and enthusiasm it's contagious uh and unrefined enthusiastic32:09
person is showing up as better to me than the MBA who just came out of one of the top schools gave me that enthusiasm32:16
give me somebody who wants to show up and do that work because we're going to have a lot more and it really is fun being at a concert32:23
I love cool nerds and you're such a cool nerd that you're at the show and thinking about this technique while32:29
you're grooming to a DJ individual surely too late for it and that is I think a balance that can be found but it32:36
has to be tried out it's not linear it's not a step-by-step type thing and I32:42
think the way that we take those steps both for personal growth and professional growth in a healthy way32:48
that doesn't get things out of balance is finding other allies who we can do that with and we can hold ourselves32:53
accountable to and both professional and personally to have people specifically I33:00
talk to there hey you did this well you said you were going to do this it's not hey I told you to do this yes you've33:07
been LED what did you say you were going to do did you did you and I I have found those books33:13
personally and professionally where that has led to immense amounts of growth to have that accountability really find my33:19
tribe around it we're excited about we're excited to fail together we're excited to settle together and we're33:25
excited to succeed together uh it just brings a levity to everything because it33:30
really is digging trenches and sometimes being in a fossil in the front line the bombs falling everywhere that can33:36
actually be an enjoyable experience if you got the right person next to you so reach out and find those people33:41
incredible advice uh I know it's something I myself have definitely uh33:46
experienced like when I first started I went to every networking event I could right and I go by myself and it's33:53
awkward right you're sitting there and I was like 21 years old and I'm super excited about this Amazon thing that nobody else cares about33:59
um but eventually I found people that care about it right and gave me the right input that did give me good advice for for down the line um and it's like34:06
you know dealing with someone like Matthew it's fun talking to someone that cares right it is is actively you know34:13
as passionate about this as I am right um there we may have different opinions from time to time and it's not like we're not gonna uh say that we think we34:20
should do this or whatever but it's the fact that we both care so much that really makes it you know a fun34:26
experience together so thank you very much thank you Matthew uh definitely you know reach out to to uh34:33
to Matthew here you can find him on LinkedIn it's a super awesome guy um he also lives in Korea which is crazy34:38
uh doing some some wild stuff there uh but yeah really really awesome people thank you so much for for coming on34:45
today and uh have a good day absolutely I look forward to seeing you on the mini golf course next time my friend I'm34:51
gonna win some of my money back man your son's gonna keep taking my money all right Daniel thanks bro later34:58
bye-bye